Instructional (Re)Design with David Hinson and Shawndra Bowers

David Hinson is the R. Hugh Daniel professor of architecture at Auburn University. David teaches a course in professional practice, a course that covers such things as running a business, marketing and communication, and professional ethics. When he realized that his lecture course needed an overhaul, he reached out to Auburn’s center for teaching and learning, the Biggio Center, for an instructional design consultation.

Shawndra Bowers is the associate director of learning experience design at the Biggio Center, where she manages a team of 40 people who support online education at Auburn. Shawndra has her hand in a variety of interesting teaching projects at Auburn. She started working with David to take his onsite lecture course and turn it into an active learning course that leverages the best of online teaching and learning.

In the interview with David and Shawndra, we talk about what motivated David to redesign his course, the big changes David and Shawndra made to the course, how the two have leveraged student feedback to continue to improve the course over time, and what its like to work with an online education unit to redesign an onsite course. 

Episode Resources

David Hinson's faculty page, https://cadc.auburn.edu/people/david-hinson/

Shawndra Bower's staff page, https://www.auburn.edu/academic/provost/bios/shawndra-bowers.php

Auburn Biggio Center, https://biggio.auburn.edu/

"Blurring the Lines for Faculty Development," Derek's recent UPCEA blog post, https://upcea.edu/blurring-the-lines-for-faculty-development/ 

Podcast Links:

Intentional Teaching is sponsored by UPCEA, the online and professional education association.

Subscribe to the Intentional Teaching newsletter: https://derekbruff.ck.page/subscribe

Support Intentional Teaching on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/intentionalteaching

Find me on LinkedIn and Bluesky.

See my website for my "Agile Learning" blog and information about having me speak at your campus or conference.

Chapters

• 2:07 Meet the Educators
• 4:58 About the Course
• 8:00 Motivation for the Redesign
• 13:47 The Redesign Process
• 23:21 Learning from Feedback
• 28:27 Key Elements of the Redesign
• 34:32 Lessons for Future Courses
• 37:30 Outro

Transcript

Derek Bruff 0:05
Welcome to the Intentional Teaching, a podcast aimed at educators to help them develop foundational teaching skills and explore new ideas in teaching. I’m your host, Derek Bruff. I hope this podcast helps you be more intentional in how you teach and in how you develop as a teacher over time.

In this episode, I’m excited to share a story of course transformation, a story that leverages the strengths of online learning in service of an onsite course and that involves a thriving partnership between a faculty member and an instructional designer.

David Hinson is the faculty member in this story. David is the R. Hugh Daniel professor of architecture at Auburn University, as well as associate dean for graduate studies and research at Auburn’s College of Architecture, Design, and Construction. David teaches a course in professional practice, a course that covers such things as running a business, marketing and communication, and professional ethics. When he realized that his lecture course needed an overhaul, he reached out to Auburn’s center for teaching and learning, the Biggio Center, and started working with the instructional designer in this story, Shawndra Bowers. Shawndra is the associate director of learning experience design at the Biggio Center, where she manages a team of 40 people who support online education at Auburn.

Now, I’ve known about the Biggio Center for years now, but I learned about Shawndra and her work through UPCEA, the online and professional education association. If you’ve listened through the end of recent episodes of the podcast, you’ll know that UPCEA is a sponsor of the Intentional Teaching podcast. One thing that means is that UPCEA recommends guests for the podcast on a regular basis, and I was delighted to meet Shawndra through UPCEA. Shawndra has her hand in a number of interesting teaching projects at Auburn, including this architecture professional practice course redesign. 

In the interview with David and Shawndra, we talk about what motivated David to redesign his course, the big changes David and Shawndra made to the course, how the two have leveraged student feedback to continue to improve the course over time, and what it's like to work with an online education unit to redesign an onsite course.

David, Shawndra, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I'm excited to talk to you and talk to you about this Very interesting course You guys have collaborated on. Thanks for being here. 

David Hinson 2:17
Thank you. 

Shawndra Bowers 2:18
Yes, Thanks for having us. 

Derek Bruff 2:20
So before we jump into the main event, I'm going to ask you my usual opening question. Can each of you tell us about a time when you realized you wanted to be an educator? 

Shawndra Bowers 2:32
Let me start by saying that I am from a family of educators, mom, dad, aunts, cousins. And growing up in that household, I promised myself that I would never be a teacher. [Laughter]

My mom recruited me to work in all of her classrooms and libraries. So I just decided I wasn't going to do that. Never say never Right? So I found my way back into the classroom through an alternative route and fell in love with middle school classroom. 

Derek Bruff 3:10
Bless your heart. [Laughter]

Shawndra Bowers 3:11
I think you have to have a you have a visceral either love or dislike of middle schoolers because they are a very interesting group of people learning their way through life. But they they really make me love education and the inspiration and possibilities that we can create in that group of young people. 

Derek Bruff 3:36
So. Oh, that's great. I love it. I love it. How about you, David? 

David Hinson 3:40
Yeah, I went to grad school in Philadelphia and practiced as an architect there for about 14 years before coming to Auburn. But about four years before I came to Auburn, I was invited as practitioners often are to teach a course in professional practice at Temple University. And so I began, That's kind of how I began my first kind of teaching, teaching formal teaching role. And I found being in the classroom just, you know, to be magical. I think the, you know, it was something I typically I taught in the evening. So it was after a full day of working and I would kind of come out of that room just kind of floating, just from all the positive energy and engagement with, with students that I got from it. And it was really that that experience, you know, teaching part time at Temple, that kind of led me to kind of take the leap of faith that I might change my career path from being a full time practitioner and part time teacher to becoming a full time teacher. And, you know, led me here to Auburn to pursue that path 27 years ago.

Derek Bruff 4:59
Yeah. Well, and that professional practice course, that's the course we're going to talk about. 

David Hinson 5:04
That's right. 

Derek Bruff 5:06
David, can you give us some background on that course? I gather it's a challenging course to teach. 

David Hinson 5:11
It is. You know, the architecture curriculum is is heavily weighted towards teaching design, design studio, design thinking, the kind of skill sets associated with design. It's a very project based teaching model, studio based teaching model. And then the other big chunk of the curriculum is devoted to the kind of technical topics that architects have to have to be knowledgeable of and know how to integrate into their their work as to as designers, as well as sort of history. And, you know, it's a packed curriculum. 

But the other big part of preparation for becoming an architect is understanding kind of all of the business practices, sort of ethical codes, codes of professional conduct, marketing, communications, all of these kind of other aspects of actually running an architectural practice. And so that's a it's it's a pretty robust subject area, that kind of gets pushed into a small percentage of the curriculum. In our case, we only have one class devoted to that big spectrum of work and that it's not uncommon, you know, in architecture programs for this topic to be covered in a in a one class, sometimes maybe it's covered in two classes, but they're... every architecture program that I'm aware of has a course or maybe two courses that are kind of covering this domain. 

Derek Bruff 6:48
And why is it challenging to teach? Just because it's so different than the rest of the curriculum? 

David Hinson 6:53
Couple of things. One, yes, it's very different. The it's just just a lot. First off, it's a lot of content. You know, the spectrum of things you have to cover is really, really broad. And secondly, the many of the topics are topics that students are they're less kind of tangible, that there's not a whole lot of prior life experience that applies to the kind of business of running an architectural practice for them. So it's a little more abstract. And so the challenge is, is to help them, you know, kind of learn and understand and retain the information. So it's a challenge to to contextualize the content for them in a way that makes it tangible and meaningful. So it's both content challenging, you know, breadth wise. And then this kind of contextualizing the topic for the students in a way that helps them understand and retain. 

Derek Bruff 7:53
Yeah, in a way it sounds intensely practical, but also something they haven't encountered yet. So more abstract than you might think. 

David Hinson 8:01
That's right. Yeah. 

Derek Bruff 8:03
Shawndra, how did you get involved in this course? 

Shawndra Bowers 8:07
So David can probably give a little bit more background in terms of, you know, recognizing during COVID and after COVID, you know, the need to kind of change some of the approaches to how we deliver instruction to our students. And so he approached our unit. So we were looking to redesign his course to be more effective, to be more efficient, to be more engaging. So the big three Es is what we're looking at, and as the instructional designer in the unit at the time, I got the pleasure to start planning with David what that looked like in terms of how do we want to approach it differently. 

Derek Bruff 8:54
So David, can you say a little bit more about about the kind of motivation for changing up this course? 

David Hinson 8:59
Yes. So I, I guess we've kind of talked about I started really my teaching career, teaching this course, you know, like 30, 30 plus years ago. And, you know, I taught in the in the approach, the kind of learning design approach that I'd experienced as a student, you know, it was very much a kind of a lecture centered course. The you know, the classic, you know, sort of stand and deliver kind of model and because I had so much content to cover, you know, it always felt like, you know, we were just running a sprint from the first day to the last day of class to get through kind of all the material when the primary mode of of presenting information to my students was through, you know, my, my in-class lecture time.

And so I was, you know, for four years I was kind of had this nagging sense that, you know, there was there had to be a better way to approach this. I was you know, I've been becoming aware of, you know, the kind of the things that the Biggio Center was bringing to our university in terms of kind of a more advanced thinking about about teaching and learning design. But, you know, so busy like it like all of us, you know, that just didn't quite feel like I had the bandwidth to to take a pause and then, you know, and reconsider my approach. And then COVID came along. Right. And it it kind of blew up the world in terms of both the way we the way old timers like, you know, like me had to teach, we had to immediately pivot. And that that kind of broke the ice for me in terms of was right, you know, this you know, as I say, what doesn't kill you make you stronger.

So the I survived that initial experience and came out of it thinking came out of it with the experience of using new tools that I had never used before in the classroom. And so I, I think that kind of broke broke the ice for me in terms of my resistance to trying something new. And then but I immediately knew that I, I needed help doing this. I didn't have the kind of depth of experience in, in kind of more advanced ways of teaching. I needed to reach out to help. And fortunately, you know, we have this amazing resource here at Auburn in the Biggio Center. And I spoke to my dean about, you know, my interest in kind of rebooting this course and using kind of online delivery tools and more robustly. And she recommended that I reach out to the video center and that's what put me in contact with Shawndra. And and then we sort of jumped in to this project. 

Derek Bruff 11:59
Let me get a little bit concrete on the timeline. At what point did you reach out to Shawndra to start working on the course? Was that was that after you had done it fully online once? 

David Hinson 12:11
No, I well, I had done it in the in the way we all did it during COVID was I just did it on you know, went on to tele-conferencing mode and, you know, recorded the lectures for students who couldn't be in in the classroom. You know, there was this simultaneous you can kind of watch the class live or you can go back and look at the recording. I think a lot of us use that that sort solution.

The spring of 21 was remote teaching again without any course redesign. And it was that at the end of that spring that I actually said, okay, I'm, I'm we're going to do this, we're going to do this better. And reached out. And, you know, I learned I learned that... when I first reached out to Dr. Ali, who's the director of the Biggio center, and said I wanted to do this, And he said, that's great. You know, we'll spend it'll take us about a year to kind of work through the redesign. You don't understand. I have to teach this again next spring. And I'm sure he did not tell Shawndra that when he first recruited her to work with me because, you know, we we so we jumped in and I started working in the summer of 2021. And worked through the summer of 21, fall of 21 to prepare to start a class in the spring of... the first, you know, the first delivery of the new design in the spring of 2022. 

Derek Bruff 13:48
Yeah. So, Shawndra, what, what goes into a redesign process like that, whether you take 12 months or less to do it, What, what were some of the big pieces that, that, that you were focused on in the redesign?

Shawndra Bowers 14:01
Right. So our our recommended is a minimum of two full semesters to rethink, redesign and produce this kind of course. During that process, there's a lot of conversation that happens to really break down and deconstruct what's important. Why is it important? How they use this? How are they going to apply this in the future? Is this an immediate or is this a long term? There's a lot of conversation that goes into really understanding the instructor, the student audience, the content, the future application. And it feels like it feels like we spend a lot of time there. And David can probably attest to that, that it feels like we're not doing much, but it is helping our team to inform the work that we're going to do, the production that we are going to do in the in the coming months. I akin it to the old the old adage measure twice, cut once.

So all that conversation helps us to frame what we're going to build in the future. And then it's a very we get the big picture items right. We get the what are the big goals where the trouble spots, where do we want to spend the most time and the most extensive resources, those what we call pain points and bottlenecks that the students experience. We make those decisions upfront and we've developed specific measurable learning objectives. We think about how are we going to assess those learning objectives. So a lot of work goes into creating all the pieces of the puzzle before he puzzle actually gets put together.

So we would build out what are the assessments look like? David came in, he said, Oh, well, I used to do this project with these firms, but it got too complicated. It was too much to kind of coordinate. But the students really loved it. So it was like, okay, we need to bring that back in and we need to do it in a way that makes it more efficient for you. So how can we do that? That is not too much of a burden on you. Too much of a burden on the firm partners, but it is still engaging and allows the students to apply what they're learning in a very authentic way. So we're pulling in all of these, you know, the project based learning, the the assessments, you know, throughout we are thinking about, you know, all of those pieces together.

And then as the timeline progresses, then we look at content. So, okay, now we make those decisions. Let's look at this content. What's the best way to deliver that content? There are opportunities that we recognize right up front where we needed David's presence. When you get a chance to talk to him, he is the most thoughtful, compassionate, brilliant person and you can get lost in listening to him talk about professional practice. It's amazing to listen to. And so there were some places where there was no replacement for that in this format, and we needed for him to do mini lectures on these topics that are crucial to the students' understanding going forward in the course that they would build on providing real life examples. Some of those more complicated kind of topics in finance, right? Working through the numbers and the problem solving when it came to those kinds of things, providing those visuals for them as he's talking through it so that they felt like he's right there now.

So the team that I, you know, in the Biggio Center that and we have a team of about 35-40 people, very talented people, that team is called Auburn Online. And so our immediate kind of intent is to build out fully online asynchronous courses. And that is what we were doing in Canvas, is building this out in a way that it could stand alone as a fully asynchronous online course that would be facilitated by an instructor because that's what our team did, right? And that is not the way David was going to ever use it, to still be in his face to face class. And so there was a little bit of, you know, the intention of how it was being built with the intention of how it was going to be used were not quite completely overlapping.

And so, you know, we learned over time and he can talk about this a little bit later in our second iteration, we actually were able to realign those so that they were much more congruent. And so so some of those things that we were doing in the first iteration, we found out that that was exactly right. And no matter what we needed David to be David bring his presence and his charisma and his passion into that online platform, whether he was delivering it face to face or if it ever goes completely asynchronous. 

David Hinson 19:31
What was kind of interesting for me was, you know, kind of looking back on it,  where this process, this course design process had a lot of similarities to what we do as architects in the kind of building design process because the you know, and you. 

Derek Bruff 19:48
You predicted my next question, David. 

David Hinson 19:50
It's not like you kind of shake a, you know, a building design out of whole cloth, out of your sleeve, right? It doesn't happen that way. It happens in a very much kind of an iterative process where you kind of do a first, first mock up, and then you look at that and say, no, that's not quite what we were trying to do. And, you know, it's it's you're always the design evolves in reaction to the first things you kind of start to create. And that was very much the case here as we started to mock up, you know, the way the online platform would be structured for the first few modules of the class, you know, my understanding of the way those were going to work start was simultaneously kind of evolving as I could see the pieces coming together. And so the the design was was very much a build the airplane in the air kind of a kind of experience and but also one where my sense of how I was going to use it, you know, in the classroom as an accompaniment to this in an in-person kind of engagement with students was constantly kind of evolving as we went along. 

The other piece that I guess I left out of the origin story was that in the old model of delivering the course, because there was so much pressure to to cover this broad topic as broad series of topics, what what got left out in the in the old model was any in-class time devoted to kind of peer to peer discussion or reflection. What did that mean? You know, kind of critical thinking about the content, which, you know, I now I certainly knew intuitively and now I know at a greater kind of level how important that is for the kind of retention of this kind of content for students. And so another goal that evolved as we went along was, yeah, I want to use my class time differently and by kind of developing this robust online kind of foundation for the class, I was able to begin to use class time for more, a different way of engaging the students on the content. And again, we went through to we went to two cycles of design on this class, Shawndra has kind of alluded to to that already. You know, the first semester of the spring of 22 we kind of delivered the beta version of this, you know, the just in time version of this and gained a lot of insight on that. What worked, what didn't work, and then had another nearly as intensive second round of design on the class between the spring of 22 and the spring of 23 to generate the version that we have and a critical part of that second iteration was the the sort of feedback process that we used. 

Derek Bruff 23:21
Yeah, say more about that. What did you learn or what did you learn and how did you learn it from the beta offering that informed the the subsequent design? 

Shawndra Bowers 23:31
David, Can I talk about the way we typically do Feedback?

David Hinson 23:34
Yes, that's exactly I was going to ask. Please do. 

Shawndra Bowers 23:36
So the Auburn online team embeds throughout one of these fully online courses that we build, right? We build it a what we call module feedback survey. It's a two question, two item response at the end of every module. One is the Likert scale, something along the lines of how helpful was this module for you in learning this content on a scale of 1 to 5 and then the other's open ended, What do you want to tell us about this module? That is it. We don't want to guide them in design, teaching, content. We wanted them to tell us whatever they wanted to. They want to tell us in these, and we use that a lot.

So initially in the first iteration, the beta iteration, spring of 22, David and I would look at that feedback each week and we were making just in time decisions about how we wanted to make adjustments and modifications and pivot in those first few weeks of the course based on what the students were inputting into that those feedback forms. And because he was teaching live, he was also telling them, Hey, keep doing that because I'm reading and responding to what you're sharing with me through that, that feedback. And so we were getting some good feedback in that way. But what we added to to that process was this idea of a student focus group that that David invited after the course was over well, I think we waited until was it the fall following fall? 

David Hinson 25:20
Yeah. So we had, you know, this is the architecture at Auburn is a five year professional bachelor's degree. So the students are taking this course in the spring of their fourth year. And so they were know we they came back to campus the following fall to complete their final year. And so with Shawndra's help, we sort of convened a focus group of students who had taken the course the previous spring and brought them back in. And and we had a a real kind of debrief where in this case we really got pulled the curtain back and said, okay, here's what we were trying to do. Here are the kind of key pieces of the design, and they had a really good kind of discussion and feedback session with those students about what worked, what didn't work, what were their ideas for how we could improve the class. And that was really constructive and impactful, I think, in the way we approached the second design phase. 

Derek Bruff 26:38
I'm curious,  did those students... I'm assuming that they were in workplaces, in architecture workplaces over that summer. Many of them. 

David Hinson 26:48
They were, yeah.

Derek Bruff 26:50
I imagine it gave them a little insight into the content, the material from the course. 

David Hinson 26:55
Yeah. Yes, it does. I always I always get the that that's a pretty common sort of feedback on that I get from students even certainly the fifth years when they come back and and then we stay in pretty close contact with our students after graduation and we get a lot of that kind of feedback on. "I didn't understand how important that class was until until now," kind of kind of feedback from them. The feedback from the students really helped me gauge where I could let go of my traditional like safety blanket of the lecture, right? 

Derek Bruff 27:33
Okay. Yeah. 

David Hinson 27:35
In the first version, we had this platform that was, you know, really robust in terms of information. But I you know, I was I was just, you know, done this for a long, long time. And I, I and it was comfortable with the model I knew. The first version. We also delivered it in a traditional tiered auditorium classroom, which is not very conducive to active learning kind of peer to peer engagement. So we sort of took all of this input that we got that fall from the students as well as input from the from the practitioner partners. We did debriefing sessions with them as well, and we folded all that back into a second design iteration. And that's I think it was that's where we really, you know, hit the mark. 

Derek Bruff 28:28
Let's talk what are some what are some key elements of the course in its current configuration that you think address some of these concerns. 

Shawndra Bowers 28:35
Can I mention one of the things that I think is really...? So we always build out a module zero, which is kind of an orientation to the course. That's pretty standard stuff. But what we were able to add in this iteration of the course that was really helpful for the students in this intentional hybrid design was a... we started with a gap Gantt, so to speak. 

Derek Bruff 29:05
What is a Gantt chart? I think I remember. 

Shawndra Bowers 29:10
So it's a chart that lays out in parallel, you know, the things that are happening and when they're happening in the timeline, right? So it was like, okay, here's when we're going to start a module or a topic in the course, here's the date. So initially you have mapped out the readings and the online content. This is when you're going through it. Here's when the assignments are due, here's when the quizzes are going to happen, here's when you're going to start engaging with the project, Liaise the firm liaison, here's when you know the the reports or whatever are due as a part of that process. So very clearly laying that out.

And then also there was a part of the Gantt chart that was and here's what we're doing in class right? That is where it became much more intentional and hybrid so that the students can see if you don't do the readings or engage with the online content before you walk in the class that day, we're going to be doing a discussion in preparing the interview questions for your first interaction with the firm liaisons so you don't have the background knowledge to then have a discussion about what kinds of interview questions are most appropriate for this particular phase of your engagement with your firm. Then it all falls apart, right? But they know now that expectation to sit from day one of the class because that's mapped out in module zero for them, that it's important that you prepare before class doing these things so we can make the most efficient and effective use of our time together doing these learning activities together and learning together. I think that was a really key element for us to add to the course that made the intention clear for the students. 

Derek Bruff 31:06
Yeah, because it sounds like you've got a lot going on in this course. The students are struggling a lot, so there's a lot of potential for them to drop a ball or get confused about what they should be doing. And then you also have, I'm guessing, a fairly... you have some expectations by students about what an architecture class, how it functions. Right. And this is not functioning like one of those studio classes. And so, you know, they may have some kind of fallback strategies that that don't make as much sense for this course, given given its topic and its format. And so giving them a visual guide to all of that sounds like a huge win. 

David Hinson 31:42
It is pretty important because there's there's sort of three threads going on now in this kind of three layered design. So there's the there's the, the online sort of content, there's the what are we doing? How will we be using class time to process that content there? There are the assignments that are you know, kind of built in that are kind of related to the content. And then there's this, this other sort of stream of activity, which is what this project based learning, which is going to be the engagement with the practitioner firm. So what we do in this case is that's now in the second iteration, instead of being kind of designed around one team working with a firm for the whole semester to kind of generate this kind of final report at the end. We now have three interviews that are strategically spread out across the semester. Topically, each interview focuses on a module that we have just covered in class, and then the students are basically, you know, interviewing their firm content, their firm contact about that topic. You know, how does the firm approach this element of. 

Derek Bruff 33:00
Ethics or marketing or finance, whatever. 

David Hinson 33:04
And so the and then at the end of each of those engagements, those three kind of interviews we do, we devote class time to doing this, you know, kind of "share and compare" discussion of what they learned from their interviews. And where were the answers kind of similar? Where were the answers different? Why was that? You know, this is all of that. Now instead of a student having one firm exposure, they've kind of got they're exposed to kind of 16 the way 16 different firms approach this topic. And, you know, that's an example of where this this new design I'm, you know, that's why I get so excited about it as a teaching strategy because it it now brings it, you know, one, the interviews do a tremendous job of contextualizing the content, right? They get to read it in the theory, in the abstract, and then they get to hear from a practitioner about how they do that. That's really a great kind of circle of of kind of closing a circle of of kind of, I think, a learning circle. The, the ability to use the class time that way as opposed to just a, just a delivery mechanism is, is so much richer learning experience for the students. 

Derek Bruff 34:31
That's great. So I want to ask, I think this is my last question. What have you taken from this project into other projects or other courses? 

David Hinson 34:48
You know, I'm an old dog and I have, but I've learned some new tricks. And so the I'm I'm as excited about teaching now in my nearly my 30th year of doing it as I was in those first years that I talked about at the beginning of our discussion here. You know, just, you know, it's it's it's wonderful to go into a classroom and feel like, yeah, I really you know, my students really, really learned something today and something that I know is going to have an impact on their professional lives. So that that's really a wonderful thing. 

Derek Bruff 35:25
That's great. How about you, Shawndra? 

Shawndra Bowers 35:27
So the unit Auburn online, just from the name, it's very easy to be typecast. So a lot of departments, colleges, faculty think because it says Auburn Online that that is like if I'm not interested in doing a fully asynchronous online course then you are can't do anything to help me, to help us. And so a lot of a lot of times you can talk about these things in abstract, but until you have a concrete example that you can demonstrate, here are the possibilities, it's harder for people to catch that vision. And so through the work that we've been doing with David over the last couple of years, we've been able to say to other faculty, to other departments on campus, Hey, we can help you with any kind of... I have to change the way I describe our unit. So when I say it's Auburn Online, I don't say online courses and programs, I say we help you to create the kinds of learning experiences that are engaging and effective outside of your face to face environment, right? Or in in partnership with your face to face environment. And so being able to point to the work that David has been doing in his class and how we've helped him and collaborated with him on that work has been has been wonderful. 

Derek Bruff 37:03
I second what you said there, Shawndra, that, you know, the, the skills of instructional design are applicable in all types of courses and all types of modalities. And so it's been really interesting to hear how this course has transformed and it sounds like it's continuing to transform. I know you'll continue to tinker with it. That is part of the design process. So thanks for coming on the podcast and thanks for sharing. This has been really delightful. 

David Hinson 37:27
Thank you, Derek, It's been a pleasure. 

Shawndra Bowers 37:29
Thank you so much. 

Derek Bruff 37:31
That was David Hinson, professor of architecture, and Shawndra Bowers, associate director of learning experience design, from Auburn University. Thanks to both of them for coming on the podcast to share their course redesign experiences. I love this story of, as David says, an old dog learning new tricks, and I find it interesting how this course redesign blurs some of the traditional lines between online and onsite teaching and learning. If you’d like more on that topic, see the show notes for a link to my recent UPCEA blog post. You’ll also find links to more information about David and Shawndra and Auburn’s Biggio Center.

Intentional Teaching is sponsored by UPCEA, the online and professional education association. In the show notes, you’ll find a link to the UPCEA website, where you can find out about their research, networking opportunities, and professional development offerings.

This episode of Intentional Teaching was produced and edited by me, Derek Bruff. See the show notes for links to my website, the Intentional Teaching newsletter, and my Patreon, where you can help support the show for just a few bucks a month. If you’ve found this or any episode of Intentional Teaching useful, would you consider sharing it with a colleague? That would mean a lot.

As always, thanks for listening.