Learning Assistants with Katie Johnson and Katarya Johnson-Williams

In a Learning Assistants program, students who did well in a course in the past are invited to come back to attend class and help current students learn the course material. I knew these programs could be effective from my time at Vanderbilt University. Last fall when I was at the POD Network conference, I just happened to sit at a table during a session next to Katie Johnson, associate professor of mathematics at Florida Gulf Coast University. I learned that not only did Katie lead a Learning Assistants program at her institution, but also that she was actively involved in the Learning Assistant Alliance, an international group of educators involved with LA programs.

I reached out to Katie after the conference to see if she and one of her experienced LAs would come on the podcast to talk about their experiences with their LA program, and they were happy to do so. I talked with Katie and with Katarya Johnson-Williams, a senior in software engineering with a minor in marketing at Florida Gulf Coast University. We talked about the Learning Assistants model, the impact this kind of program can have on faculty and students, and advice for instructors who are interested in starting up an LA program in their department or on their campus.

Episode Resources

Katie Johnson’s website, https://mathdrkj.wixsite.com/home

Katarya Johnson-Williams on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/katarya-johnson-williams/

Learning Assistant Program at Florida Gulf Coast University, https://www.fgcu.edu/about/leadership/officeoftheprovost/la-program/

Learning Assistant Alliance, https://www.learningassistantalliance.org/ 

Transcript

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Derek Bruff: 0:32

Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a podcast aimed at educators to help them develop foundational teaching skills and explore new ideas and teaching. I'm your host, Derek Bruff. I hope this podcast helps you be more intentional in how you teach and in how you develop as a teacher over time. Several years ago, when I was at Vanderbilt University, I had the chance to watch a group of colleagues across the Center for Teaching and a few science departments launch a learning assistants program. In a learning assistants program, students who did well in the course in the past are invited to come back to attend class and help current students learn the course material. The Learning Assistants program at Vanderbilt was so successful in its impact on students, both the ones serving as LAs and the ones taking the LA enhanced courses that the Dean of the College of Arts and Science ponied up a significant amount of money to grow and expand it. Flash forward to last fall when I was at the POD Network conference. I just happened to sit at a table during a session next to Katie Johnson, Associate Professor of mathematics at Florida Gulf Coast University. I learned that not only did Katie lead a learning assistants program at her institution, but also that she was actively involved in the learning assistant Alliance, an international group of educators involved in L.A. programs. I reached out to Katie after the conference to see if she and one of her experienced LAs would come on the podcast to talk about their experiences with their program, and they were happy to do so. I talked with Katie and with Katarya Johnson-Williams, a senior in software Engineering with a minor in marketing at Florida Gulf Coast University. We talked about the learning assistants model, how it differs from other models like the students-as-partners model we covered a few episodes back on the podcast. The impact this kind of program can have on faculty and students, and advice for instructors who are interested in starting up an L.A. program in their department or on their campus. Thank you, Katie and Katarya, for coming on the podcast. I'm excited to talk with you today about the learning assistants program there. Thanks so much for being on the podcast.

Katie Johnson: 2:32

Well, thank you so much for inviting me. I love talking about L.A. programs.

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 2:36

Of course.

Derek Bruff: 2:38

So let's I like to I'd like to start fairly concrete. What what is a learning assistant and how does this role differ from other instructional roles that might support a course like a like a teaching assistant that you might find in other institutions?

Katie Johnson: 2:55

Yeah. So a learning assistant is an undergraduate student who helps in the classroom during class time with the course that they've already taken and been successful in. So they are there to support the learning as opposed to a teaching assistant who is there to support the teacher and might do anything the teacher needs. So a teaching assistant could help during class time, but they might also help with grading or taking attendance or handing out worksheets, things like that. A learning assistant is there to help facilitate the learning, so they are working with students as they're having discussions, as they are working on activities to increase their conceptual understanding of some very difficult topics. So learning assistants are most prevalent in STEM classes, and here they also started just in introductory lower level STEM courses. But now we've expanded to more than 16 departments all across the university and at all different levels. So we have LAs sometimes in three and 4000 level courses. But our primary focus is on those intro level courses. Another thing that makes learning assistants different is that they have ongoing weekly pedagogical training, which a different student who might be helping during class doesn't necessarily know how to help someone learn. They they know the content, but not necessarily how to how to teach it or how to ask. Ask good questions. And for SI leaders. That's another program that we get compared to quite a lot.

Derek Bruff: 4:40

All right. Supplemental instruction.

Katie Johnson: 4:41

Right. Supplemental instruction SI leaders. Their primary role is outside of the classroom. So they run additional review sessions where they can help the students with practice problems and things like that. So learning assistants are really designed to be used in the classroom, and that means that the class has to be active.

Derek Bruff: 5:05

Mm hmm.

Katie Johnson: 5:06

So you might be able to use SI leaders in a different class where LAs wouldn't be appropriate? Because if the students aren't actively doing things, then there's nothing for the LA to help with. On the other hand, if it is an active class, LAs have a larger impact because they're meeting the students where they are. They don't have to rely on the students to come to an additional session outside of class that might just not be accessible for some students. The other thing that makes a difference is that learning assistants meet with faculty every week to do a prep session, so they're supposed to meet with their faculty mentor for an hour each week, and that's to go over content. But it's also to talk about things that are going on in the classroom, different students who are struggling or teams that maybe aren't clicking and some LAs, too,will help prepare a material come up with new activities and things to try.

Derek Bruff: 6:06

Wow. Okay, so there's a lot there. Let me ask Katarya, what first, how did you come to be involved in this program? What what I gather you've played different roles in the L.A. program on your campus. So what what is that story been like for you?

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 6:23

Yes. So as a freshman, I started college. I started here at FGCU in fall of 2020. So it was like pandemic time. So classes were all online and everything. And so I took introduction to computer Science my very first semester here, and I had this awesome professor named Professor Vanselow, who helps with the L.A. program at FGCU. And after I finished my class, even though I was a freshman, he said, Katarya, I would love if you would be in L.A. for my class, like starting next semester. So he asked me to join. He had like several other LAs at the time, helping with his introduction to computer science class. So it was great because I got to learn from them and I went on to help with that course for five semesters. So I've helped so and I also I even helped another professor transition into teaching that class, and I helped another professor who taught it for like one semester is like an adjunct. So it definitely I definitely help like bridge the gap for like people who are new to teaching and everything as well. Jus because I had that experience with an experienced professor and then in I believe it was last, it was last fall, right? Dr. Johnson I was I was the Learning Assistant Learning Assistant. So basically that's the learning assistant for the pedagogy class. I know it's kind of silly. We call it the L.A., L.A., I know at UC-Boulder,they have like Super LA LA or something. I don't know. It's it's pretty funny. They have, like, LAs who help the L.A. LA's, I don't know, but we have does L.A. LA's here, so I help support the incoming LA's who are learning the pedagogy, lessons and everything for the first time. And that was great. I've also like been to the Learning Assistant, like the conference that they have at UC Boulder I attended virtually, and we had a learning we had like a learning assistant conference here at FGCU, and I attended that as well. So it's definitely it's been really helpful to me as a, as a student. It definitely boosted my confidence, you know, to be offered such an an important role, like not just being an undergraduate student, but just, you know, being is my first time in college, obviously. So And I'm like away from home for the first time. And, you know, to have someone see me and be like, she has potential, you know, like that really made such a difference for me. And I did go on. So I'm my major software engineering. So I did get an internship with Microsoft in summer of 2022, a I got another one in summer 2023, and I will be going to work there full time after I graduate. And so being in L.A. was like my first kind of step into like getting involved on campus. And I became an officer in software engineering club around the same time. And, you know, just like those, but in like the pedagogy and learning how to talk to people like that really has built my leadership in communications skills. And I just have a lot to think this program for, like as a student. And it's also got me interested in teaching actually. So I first I like I originally wanted to be a teacher, not a software engineer. And so it was really cool to come here. And I helped with by my biology teacher in high school. And so, you know, it's really cool to be like, Oh yeah, you can do this program that's not being a TA, but you're actually getting to work with the students more. And what really like makes me happy as like in like an educator role I guess is like when you see the light bulb go off, like when you see students like and they finally they're really struggling with the concepts. Like, I help teach students how to code for the first time. So, so many of them, you know, they've never touched a computer this way before. And, you know, so and they're kind of panicking and they're like, I can never do this. And I'm like, You can do this. We all start here. But like, since I'm a student, you know, I'm like, I started in the same places you I was right here like four years ago. So, you know, it's okay. Like, and I feel like that really helps, so.

Katie Johnson: 10:20

Well, Katarya, am I remembering correctly that during your interview for the first internship at Microsoft, they asked you about being in L.A. L.A.?

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 10:28

Yes. So? So being in L.A. was actually kind of like my shining role on my resume, the one I submitted to Microsoft. And so my first interviewer, he said, I just want to talk to you about your leadership experience like that was he didn't even want to really ask me coding questions because it was like I did the Microsoft Explorer program, which is basically for first and second year computer science students. And so he he just he was like, you know, tell me more about this program that you're a part of. And, you know, I was telling him how like I have a leadership role in the classroom, Like I get up, I help contribute to lessons. I answer questions. We do like group activities, and I'm helping facilitate the students, make sure they're working together. They understand like the assignment. And, you know, he thought that was awesome is as a senior software engineer, which is his role, He was explaining to me that he onboards junior engineers. So he kind of does something similar to what I do in the classroom. He's helping people make sure they understand their role and how to work with their team and everything. And so, you know, as an LA, I do that. But like for students. And so, you know, I'm kind of he's like, you know, well, you're he's like, you would be an amazing fit. Like he is the engineer who ended up signing on my offer actually, which is very funny. So.

Katie Johnson: 11:42

So obviously Katarya is a pretty amazing student and was a fantastic L.A. But we do see this happen with most of our learning assistants. This sort of professionalization being a learning assistant helps you with all of those soft skills being able to communicate and teamwork and management and all sorts of things. So students who are in fields like engineering or going to be, let's say, medical doctors, it's an excellent program for them because they're learning how to communicate about technical topics, right? Because in those fields, not only do you need to know your discipline, but you need to know how to work with other people and how to communicate about it in effective ways.

Derek Bruff: 12:34

Katie How did how did you get to be involved in this program and how long has has the program been around it at Gulf Coast?

Katie Johnson: 12:42

So our program started in 2016 fall of 2016, was our first cohort and I have run it since the beginning. So I was on a Noyce grant that

Derek Bruff: 12:58

What is Noyce?

Katie Johnson: 12:59

right? So the National Science Foundation, Noyce Grants provides scholarships to STEM majors who agree to teach in local high needs schools, public schools for a number of years upon graduation. So the idea is that we're providing these scholarships to help students graduate with their STEM major, but we're also kind of infusing these experts into into the local public schools. As we all know that there are shortages nationwide of high school STEM teachers. So as part of that program, we thought about starting an learning assistant program, which is not uncommon. Many L.A. programs have actually started through the Noyce grant as more of a recruiting tool. So, you know, I'm a math professor, but I enjoy teaching very much. And part of that is because I like getting other people excited about math. And as Katarya said, getting that aha moment. So we thought, okay, if some of our STEM majors try out teaching as a learning assistant, then maybe they'll think, Hey, I actually really enjoy this. I really like talking to people about my field. And so and so our LA program started as recruitment for that. We had ten LAs each semester for about the first three years and we actually had a lot of success with that. About half of our Noyce scholars worked as LAs either before or during their during their their scholarship. So it was very successful in that respect. But our main goals at that time were really recruiting students to become STEM teachers. And I would say especially for students who are STEM majors, they don't necessarily get that practicum. So if you are a secondary math major or an education major, you get to go out in the schools during your last year. But if you're a STEM major, who's going to then go and teach math in high school you don't get that experience. And so we've had several students who have now been high school teachers for five years and who actually teach with more active methods because they were learning assistant here and they got to see how it was done, how it worked. It was a lot less scary for them to start doing it in their own classes. And there's a lot of research that shows that that students who work as LAs and then go and become teachers are much more likely to use those high impact active practices themselves.

Derek Bruff: 15:38

Katarya What is that working relationship like when you're working with a do you call it a supervisor, a mentor, the faculty member you're working with?

Katie Johnson: 15:46

I say faculty mentor.

Derek Bruff: 15:48

Faculty mentor.

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 15:49

So you mean like, like the professor we're working with, like for the class? Yeah. Yeah. Um, honestly, I. I like it a lot because you, you know, the L.A. program, like, makes you have that, like, one hour meeting and, you know, so you get to interact with your professor on, like, a weekly basis and you kind of get to learn from them, but they also get to learn from you. So like, I was kind of in that unique scenario where like my first semester or two, I had the experienced professor had been teaching the class and had designed the curriculum like around like the active learning principles and everything. And then I was given this new professor who had never taught before and was going to take this curriculum and try and teach it. And so we kind of had like a reverse like mentor relationship, like at the end of that semester he was like, I can't teach without my LAs,I need my LAs. His name is Professor Ashraf and he's he's like, he's really great. But so, you know, he but you know, we were able to show him like tell him not only about like how the class has gone with us being LAs, but also how it went with us as students and kind of identify those pain points and tell him, you know, like kind of give him the student perspective. And like, I think that the big strength of LAs is that we kind of bridged the gap between the student and the professor. You know, especially, you know, if you have a professor who maybe has come out of like retirement or something. So they just came out of the workforce and they're not really thinking like, Oh, I'm in a room full of college students who just came out of high school and maybe don't maybe aren't used to being talked to like this, you know, or something like that, you know? So it's like helping helping the professors build that sympathy. And so, like, we kind of get to view the professors as human. But the humans, I mean, the professors also have view their students more in like a human way. I feel like.

Derek Bruff: 17:41

Sure, sure. And that can be hard, right? Like, you enter into this classroom situation, there's a professor on one side, students on the other side. There's a lot of structural barriers to making that human connection and establishing trust. And so it sounds like this LA relationship is one way to kind of try to work on that.

Katie Johnson: 17:59

Yeah, 100%. Students trust their LAs so much, and this is shown again and again at different places. And the research is that a lot of places start L.A. programs thinking like, Oh, this will be great. We'll have someone else in the classroom to help explain the content. And while that does happen, LAs are so much more than that. They really become mentors and role models. And as Katarya said, they're this connection. And so they can they help the faculty become a better teacher, too. We've had LA's share of things from the pedagogy course with their faculty who have been teaching for decades, but had never tried something before and trying something new or letting your L.A. try something new is a lot less scary when you have this team, this instructional team that's working together as opposed to on your own. I have also, when I've taught with LAs,if I am teaching a class like Calculus, where other faculty are teaching the same course and working with learning assistants, we try to all get together and meet every week and that is wonderful because we can. I've never met with another faculty member Weekly about a course that we're teaching unless we're working with learning assistants. And it is so valuable to talk about a course with someone regularly so and to have the student voice in their right to be getting feedback from our learning assistants and troubleshooting things, especially during COVID and trying to teach hyflex and hybrid and synchronously online, we could kind of figure that all out together.

Derek Bruff: 19:40

Yeah. Can can each of you say a little bit more about the training and preparation and pedagogy course? Like, what do you have in place to help to LAs be successful and in that role.

Katie Johnson: 19:52

Do you want to start or.

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 19:53

I would love to. So I love the pedagogy course. I think it's one of my favorite class I've taken at FGCU. It's, you know, it's I'm I know now we do like a seminar kind of thing And that also I like I'm so glad that we have that because the only piece I felt like was missing was that, you know, as a returning L.A. Someone you didn't get as much because you weren't going back. But now that all the LAs go together to a seminar, it's like, perfect. I love it, But I like taking the pedagogy class, like, totally changed my perspective on so many things. So, like, my, my favorite thing to talk about was like first generation students. So that lesson that we did blew my mind. I was like, I was like, You can come to college and not know what office hours are like. You know, like that was so, you know, because I'm like, it was just something I was like, Oh, you know, there's nothing someone can tell me that I haven't heard before. Right? And, you know, I've always thought like, Oh, I'm an empathetic person, but, you know, I didn't even comprehend that. Like, that was a possibility. Like, both my parents have master's degrees and like, you know, I understand that that's like a position of privilege. But, you know, to understand that, you know, a, you know, this is something I need to be prepared for and be able to help students with. You know, th might not know how student housing works or that you there's all these different pieces of college that you have to, like figure out and you're like an adult now. They can just throw you in the deep end and you're so that everybody doesn't have a mom and a dad to like, guide them through and hold their hand. And, you know, so like, that was really big for me. And then another thing was like, you know, learning about things like microaggressions and like how like, you know, saying something that you might think is okay to say isn't necessarily okay to someone else. And, you know, it's really important to like, acknowledge people's backgrounds. And because, you know, I have had professors that I don't feel like have done that for me. So to be able to put in the effort and make sure that not only I'm that I'm doing that, but letting my professors that I'm helping know, like, hey, you know, the thing you said in class, maybe you shouldn't say that because it could really, like, hurt someone, you know? And then, of course, you know, being able to develop one of like the first lessons we did when I took the class was like developing questions, which so something I tell people. My biggest piece of advice to new LAs is to never respond to a student with like a statement like always say another question. So like and I'm like, I know it sounds annoying in concept, but if you actually do it like it works like, you know, you don't like, you know, you just never you never want to be giving them the answer because, you know, we're helping people learn. I'm not supposed to leave a student with them necessarily knowing everything because they might not have learned how to get there themselves. But, you know, I'm there to guide them along the learning, like their learning process. So, you know, like, I was just it's just really cool and, you know, that we get to interact. Also, the pedagogy classes taught by different faculty so sometimes are not always like, you know, we have like a physics professor who helps. We have Dr. Johnson, who's in the math department, who helps, you know, so like having like being in the engineering department, like having different professors, like being exposed to their different ways of thinking is like, really helpful.

Katie Johnson: 22:59

I know that our new learning assistants are really starting to get it. It's really starting to click when they tell me, you know, the first couple of weeks I was so nervous that I would have all of the solutions, all the answers on my worksheet I carried around with me just so that I didn't, you know,accidentally freeze up and forget how to do something. And then they'll say, you know, I actually just don't even carry it with me anymore. Because so many times students are saying, Is this right? Is this right? And when I don't have it with me, I can honestly say, I don't know. How did you get it? Explain to me what you did. Let's talk about it. Because even if it is the right answer, you know, maybe you're doing something that won't always work. Or maybe there's another way to do it. Maybe you're doing it in a different way than how I think about it. So this idea of starting with questions so you can pinpoint where the student is at and then see where to go from there is extremely important. I actually had some math majors who popped in, who were who are learning assistant saying this idea of asking more open ended questions had changed their lives, that they're doing it in daily conversation more. That is just like such a great thing to ask more questions and it helps you be a really active listener. So I thought that was that was entertaining. So in the pedagogy course, it's done slightly differently in different places. Bu here ours has always been taught by faculty or staff from across the university. And so that was another layer of community that I didn't expect when we started this program. But when you have math professors or physics professors or biology professors in there helping teach the learning assistants about pedagogy, not only are they actually learning more about pedagogy, but they are getting to understand these students more and where they come from and the struggles that they face and the faculty together. Because we try to practice, practice what we preach. So for the LA course, for new faculty, we tend to either co teach or we meet weekly to discuss and to prep. So it's only an hour long seminar and yet we're still meeting weekly for an hour to discuss it and to talk about what the LAs need and different ways to to make it better. And so now faculty from across campus have worked together on this from many different departments. We have about a dozen at this point and staff. We've had some staff members from the Center for Academic Achievement work on it, and normally they wouldn't have collaborated this closely with faculty. But we want the students to also know that LA's themselves, to also know that the course is not just about theory, they're not, you know, education minors for the most part, we're really talking about here are these ideas, these important ideas. Now, how can they help you be a better L.A., Right? How can they help you help your students more? And a lot of us find that it also helps their own study skills and time management and right thinking about it Growth mindset in resources on campus. That was another thing my LA told me this morning was a different learning assistant reminded him that we have a math tutoring center so he could go there for help on Calc three and that he is no longer as afraid to ask questions or say that he doesn't know something because now he has this growth mindset. And, you know, that's sort of that's the point. Right. And so think about the LA is bringing that into their other courses. Right? It's changing. The culture is saying it's okay to answer and have a wrong answer. It's okay to ask questions. It's okay to not understand something. At first. It really does change the whole culture of teaching and learning.

Derek Bruff: 26:56

So Katarya, could you speak a little bit to what Katie just mentioned about the impact this has had on on the rest of your education, not the courses where you're serving as in L.A., but you as a student in your other courses?

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 27:08

Yeah. So I can say for me the the biggest impact has been making me more comfortable with my professors. So like, we don't have huge classes in like our engineering college. It usually I'd say the maximum was like 35 students in a class. But you know, you're professors like, and our professors put a lot of effort into learning people's names and stuff, but it's different from them just knowing your name versus like knowing you, you know? And so like every single class, like I, I went into college, I was like, I'm going to sit at the front of the class and I'm going to get to know my professor and they're going to listen to me. I'm going to ask a lot of questions. I am the question asker. So I always ask a lot of questions and, you know, and I think that like but after like coming in L.A. now, when I go to class, I'm also like, okay, But I can acknowledge that my professor is also a person and you know, maybe like sometimes they're going to have a bad day or maybe they're going to be a little stressed out, you know, So I can just like offer you know, I can ask, how are you doing? You know, like to my professor and maybe, you know, maybe that makes them like, oh, wow, no one's ever asked me that. So, you know, and I think it also helps me like, kind of I know this might be kind of strange, but sometimes I like I just love going to professor's office hours just to talk to them. And so now I kind of go to my professor's office hours and I will kind of give them feedback on their assignments, which sounds a little weird, but like, I think it genuinely helps some of them. Like I've gone to professors where like, this is their first or second time teaching the class. And I'm like, Have you ever considered having an L.A. for this course? I think it might help or like or I've said, like, have you considered making this assignment like a group assignment in class instead of a homework assignment? Because I think we would get more out of it if we were talking to each other, you know? So and as far as I've had my professors like, actually edit assignments in the future because they actually liked my feedback. So, you know, I think it I kind of I feel like kind of like in on a like a meta level because I kind of understand like maybe the logic behind picking a specific lesson or specific way to talk about something. And I'm like, Oh, I, we learned about this in the pedagogy class. I know how this I know what this is. So yeah.

Derek Bruff: 29:18

Yeah, I totally believe that, Yeah. Because again, faculty often have trouble making that authentic connection with their students. And so it's sometimes hard to understand the student perspective on something, right? I'm a faculty member. I have an advanced degree. I've been studying this forever. Like, what is it like to be a learner encountering this material for the first time? And I think also a lot of faculty don't talk to each other about their teaching. And so it's not like you're serving as almost a peer to them just because of the experience you have. Thinking about teaching and engaging in teaching, that's that's really powerful. Katie Were you going to add something to that?

Katie Johnson: 29:54

Yeah, I. Had a learning assistant who I worked with for three semesters and multiple different courses, and she's now in a Ph.D. program for math.But by the end we had such a strong working relationship, it was very much like we were co teaching. She had a lot of agency and we could we would run like a coffee hour on Wednesdays afternoons and get students to come and just chat with us, you know, not necessarily about homework, but this idea that this is the heart of a university is this relationship between faculty and students. And so seeing how like they could see how how well we knew each other and how comfortable we were with each other, and they could see that like this is this is what I want to have with faculty. This is they are there to be my mentors and guides and, you know, aren't so scary. Also, if you want to get students to come to your office hours, giving out free coffee is always a great way to do it. My experience.

Derek Bruff: 30:52

Noted. Okay, so I'm going to put on my black hat here for a minute. Okay. Why don't we have an LA for every course?

Katie Johnson: 31:01

Great question. So if every course were active, then I think you could benefit from having a learning assistant in there. So many courses are just aren't active enough. You know, the students aren't talking to each other enough. They're not. There's not enough for the LA to actually help with If now. Okay so so caveat there I've I've helped many faculty members start to be more active so I make sure that their learning assistants know that like this is a faculty member who really wants to start doing more active things, which means right away you probably aren't going to have as much to do, you know, right away. It's going to start with them doing lecture and then having pauses for practice problems. But let's try, you know, baby steps. Let's try as the semester goes on, to do a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. Faculty aren't going to jump directly to a flipped classroom or using POGIL,process oriented guided inquiry learning, which I love. They probably aren't going to jump to that from lecturing. I think those are some of the best classes for LAs to help with. But there's a process right too to get there and LAs can really be supportive of that. When I started teaching with active learning, you know, I was in my twenties so I could just run around all class like crazy. And then at the end of class I wanted to kind of collapse, but I could do it. But now, with a learning assistant, I get to slow down and I get to have more conversations and I get to ask more questions too, and have those deeper discussions instead of just, Oh, here's a hand pointing in the right direction. Now there's like seven other hands up I have to run over and take care of. And so it really makes active learning for me a lot more enjoyable and and easier to accomplish. The other thing too, is that for some classes, especially upper level ones, you're not going to have a learning assistant who really helps with student success in an obvious way. So if you're in these entry level STEM courses where half the students are failing, yeah, put LAs in there and you'll see the DFW rate drop, right? The percentage of students who are getting a D or an F or, or withdrawing from the course and we've seen that here. It's raised the overall DFW rate in those classes that have LAs by 11%, which is significant. That's a lot of students who are passing now who weren't passing before. But as we've said, LAs do a lot more than that. And so they especially an upper level course, they help students feel part of a community, feel that they belong, stay in the major, graduate on time, better attitude, right. Their attitude towards their college experience. And so there's a lot of ways LAs are helping that isn't as obvious at first. One study showed that first year of students having an LA in a single class made their grades better The next semester, made it more likely that they were going to stay around for their second year because just having that that single LA was enough to help them with their study strategies and their time management and to see, Hey, I can do this.

Derek Bruff: 34:31

So we're our time is running short. But I did want to ask, what advice would you give to a faculty member interested in starting in an L.A. program on their campus? Yours is pretty advanced at this point, but do you have any advice for folks getting started in this?

Katie Johnson: 34:46

Yeah, of course. So when we first started, like I said, we only had ten LAs each semester, and then this semester we actually hired 77 LAs. So it was a lot. My advice is to start small so you don't even have to start with ten LAs. In fact, we had a couple of unofficial ones in the year prior to that who were interested in teaching And like I said, as long as you're teaching with active methods, you can have a learning assistant. So what you do is you find a student who has some interest in helping in your course. And if your department has a T.A. program in place, you can hire them as a TA and then just try to do these other things, like meeting with them weekly, talking about pedagogy, You know, with a few students, you're not going to be able to do it Pedagogy course yet. Yet. But we can still talk that and some of our first unofficial LAs were education minors, so they actually already had a lot of experience. And then you might have some faculty members in your department who are also interested in doing something similar, and you can kind of start to meet all together and discuss this stuff. And I do think it's actually easier to start an LA program in one department and even in perhaps one class. So if your department is doing an overhaul for college algebra or for calculus build learning assistants in at this point, I just have to assume that you're going to be redesigning it to be active. So put the LAs right in there and then you can actually show you can get very clear data showing the impact. It's also a lot easier to manage in one department. The other thing if you don't have a department TA program is that a lot of students are actually happy to volunteer Service learning is a huge thing here and even now, when we're willing to pay, we'll sometimes have students who want to get those service learning hours. You know, they really do see the value in it, and that can be an easy way to get started. A lot of students recognize that getting that close relationship with a faculty member means that you're going to be able to get those recommendations later. And also, when they LA for a course, they learn it a lot better than they did it the first time. So in particular, like premed, students know that if they help out with intro bio, they are going to know it's even if they were an A student before, they're going to know it's so much better and they're going to remember it and retain it and it helps them for their later courses and when they take the MCAT and things like that. Yeah. So start small and then the little creating entity. Right, Right. And get involved with the Learning Assistant Alliance. If you go to a learning assistant alliance dot org, you can create a free account and get become part of that community. There's also a Slack channel you can request to join through there that is pretty active. And then you're you're getting to be part of this international community of faculty who really care a lot about students across lots of different disciplines.

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 37:56

And I just want to add that if you are looking to recruit in L.A., please reach out to the student that you would like to be your LA, you know, and let them know. Like, I see that potential and you like I want you to be in L.A. for my course, like as a as a student who struggles with imposter syndrome, like everyone else, you know, it really made all the difference, like my freshman year, to have a professor, like, say, I want you specifically. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Derek Bruff: 38:24

Well, thank you both. This has been fantastic. Lots of inspiration, but also lots of practical ideas for what this could look like. Other campuses. So, yeah, thanks for coming on the podcast and thanks for sharing.

Katie Johnson: 38:34

Thanks again for inviting us here.

Katarya Johnson-Williams: 38:36

Thank you for having us. It's really fun.

Derek Bruff: 38:39

That was Katie Johnson, associate professor of Mathematics and coordinator of the Learning Assistance Program at Florida Gulf Coast University, and Katarya Johnson Williams, senior at Software Engineering at Florida Gulf Coast and an experienced learning assistant. Thanks to both of them for coming on the podcast and sharing their experiences with this program. Katie actually asked for an early cut of that interview to share with the learning Assistance Pedagogy course at her school, and I was happy to oblige. See the show notes for links to more information about Katie and Katarya, as well as to the website for the Learning Assistant Alliance, where you can learn much more about these programs. Intentional Teaching is sponsored by UPCEA, the Online and Professional Education Association. In the show notes, you'll find a link to the UPCEA website where you can find out about their research, networking opportunities and professional development offerings. This episode of Intentional Teaching was produced and edited by me, Derek Bruff. See the show notes for links to my website, the intentional teaching newsletter and my Patreon where you can help support the show for just a few bucks a month. If you found this or any episode of Intentional teaching useful, would you consider sharing it with a colleague? That would mean a lot. As always, thanks for listening.