AI-Aware Online Math Teaching with Jessica Bernards

Today on the podcast I talk with Jessica Bernards, an experienced online math instructor. Jessica teaches math at Portland Community College and the University of Oregon. She’s also an author and a consultant helping other educators adapt to the world of AI. In our interview, she talks about all the moves she makes to make her students learning visible, to support her online learners when they struggle with learning math, and how her approach to teaching math online has changed because of AI. 

Episode Resources

·       Jessica Bernard’s website

·       Jessica’s Study Skills Playlist

·       Jessica’s structured online discussion process

·       Jessica’s student-designed AI chatbot lab

·       Photomath

Transcript

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Jessica Bernards 0:34

We also try to bring in a lot of things with growth mindset. So every once in a while I'll throw growth mindset questions in there too, like what did you struggle the most with on this lab? Um, how did you persevere through it? Um, what are you still struggling with? And what are some things that you can do to ensure that you're learning it? Because especially in math, um, but I think in all courses, you want students to understand that struggling is part of the process.

Derek Bruff 0:57

Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a podcast aimed at educators to help them develop foundational teaching skills and explore new ideas in teaching. I'm your host, Derek Bruff. I hope this podcast helps you be more intentional in how you teach and in how you develop as a teacher over time.

Derek Bruff 1:14

There was a time when I knew a lot of math faculty who couldn't imagine teaching an online math course. I'll share that at one of my former institutions, the math department, for a very long time refused to take online math courses as transfer credits because they just didn't believe you could teach math in a rigorous way online. Eventually, that department came around because, yes, you can teach math online. It's not easy, however, especially today when students have easy access to AI technologies that can do all the math for them.

Derek Bruff 1:44

Today on the podcast, I talk with Jessica Bernards, an experienced online math instructor. Jessica teaches math at Portland Community College and at the University of Oregon. She's also an author and a consultant helping other educators adapt to the world of AI. Jessica and I met a few months ago while serving together on a panel about fostering student metacognition in math courses. She had a lot to say about her approach to teaching math online, and I was excited to invite her on the podcast. In her interview, she talks about all the moves she makes to make her student learning visible, to support her online learners when they struggle with learning math, and how her approach to teaching math online has changed because of AI.

Derek Bruff 2:27

Before we get to the interview, however, I want to remind listeners to let me know what idea or example, question, or quote from an intentional teaching podcast episode you keep thinking about. I'm working on the show's 100th episode, where I'll share excerpts from past episodes featuring powerful insights and your comments about why those insights have stuck with you. Your deadline for this assignment is September 15th.

Derek Bruff 2:51

Now, on to my interview with math instructor, Jessica Bernards.

Derek Bruff 2:56

Jessica, welcome to Intentional Teaching. I'm glad to have you on the podcast, and I'm glad to have the chance to hear more about you and your math teaching. Thanks for being here.

Jessica Bernards 3:04

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Derek Bruff 3:06

Yeah. Um, I'll start with my usual opening question. Um, can you tell us about a time when you realized you wanted to be an educator?

Jessica Bernards 3:14

Is it weird that I can like exactly pinpoint it? So for me, I'll never it was in fifth grade. Um, and so my mom had been a teacher. She was an elementary school teacher. Um, and I just remember in fifth grade, I was, I was always one of those like little mini teachers in the classroom. Like in second grade, I would go up to the teacher and be like, I think the class is being a little too loud. You should quiet them down. Like, what a little like piss up. But um, but in fifth grade, I started, you know, that's when students start to kind of like start to struggle a little bit in math, like refractions, things like that. And I just remember that I felt like I ended up like I had a friend who was struggling, and I sat down and like really explained it to them in a way that they understood it. And I was like, wait, I think I can do this. And um, and then the teacher ended up having me help. And so once I would get my assignment done, she'd have me go walk around and help other students or small groups that were struggling. And I just found that I not only had a knack for it, but I really got a high off of seeing students who were really struggling. I mean, these these were just my friends. I was 10, but like being able to just with my words help their brains like be able to fully understand something and see that excitement and that light bulb go off. I just loved that. And so that's what made me decide I wanted to go into that. And what's funny is I actually started out wanting to be an elementary school teacher. And because for me, math came easily, but not as easily as you would expect for someone that's a math professor. Like I definitely struggled a bit at it in the sense that it took me a little bit longer for it to catch on and to click than you know, some other students. I wasn't the first one turning in exams or homework. Um, it would take me a little bit longer. And so I just thought, okay, well, I'm just not as good at it. And it was my freshman year in college, um, and the one math class I had to take for my degree, that I had this teacher just make math come alive and um really was kind of ahead of his time. Growth mindset wasn't really a huge thing out there. Carol Dweck hadn't, you know, gone up and talked about it yet. And so he innately had that in him. And he talked about how it doesn't matter how quick and fast you are at getting something done, that doesn't mean you're smarter than anyone else in the room. It's about once you, your perseverance and once it does click, do you fully understand it and are you able to remember that? And and that was like a huge light bulb for me and made me decide, you know what, I think I can do this and I can spread this message out to other students. And so I went and decided, changed my entire uh teaching trajectory and became um a math professor instead of an elementary ed teacher, which I think honestly I would have struggled if I taught elementary school ed earl.

Derek Bruff 6:11

So yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, I had I um I didn't have that uh tutoring teaching moment in elementary school. I did, I did realize like math came more easily to me than some of my peers, but I it was my first year of college where I did some peer tutoring that I thought, oh yes, this is really rewarding actually to help someone understand something they're struggling with.

Jessica Bernards 6:33

Totally. I think it's cool because you can see the difference you're making like immediately.

Derek Bruff 6:38

Yes. Well, um, you and I met because we were on a panel a couple of months ago on um uh supporting student metacognition in math courses. And so I thought maybe we would start there. I want to get to know kind of who you are as a teacher and how you how you work with your students and help them understand and persist. And so um let's talk about metacognition. What are some ways that you try to build student metacognition in in your math courses?

Jessica Bernards 7:07

Yeah, so I think so. For me, I primarily now, well, not primarily, I only teach fully online courses at this moment, um, our asynchronous courses, um, which is obviously very it's much harder to build that in and make sure it's intentional. Um, and I really like that challenge. And so I miss teach, I miss my in-person people, but it's been really nice to really put in and have this challenge of how can I make these online classes really emulate what I was doing in in-person. And part of that is bringing that metacognition in. And we have to be so intentional with how we do that. And so, you know, students don't naturally pause and reflect and think about learning unless we really force them to do that. And so, one of the things that I do is um I do these discussion boards, which in my opinion, discussion boards and online classes can be such a waste of time or like a hoop to jump through for a lot of students with how we set them up. But the last couple of years I've been really intentional with how I'm doing them. And so, for example, in my calculus online classes, and this is the same for all my class online classes, but I'll do um, I have like a conceptual lab where students are going through and really having to get into the weeds of the math and what's going on so that they can conceptually understand it through the use of like applets, using Amplify curriculum, et cetera.

Derek Bruff 8:28

And so you mentioned applets and Amplify. And I, as a math educator, I think I know what you're talking about. But could you say a little bit more about kind of what those labs look like for our, especially for our non-math educators?

Jessica Bernards 8:40

Yeah. So, oh my gosh, and there's so much you could do with those with non-math uh stuff. But it's really, you know, they have card sorts, they have really where students like in math, it's really visual, right? And it's seeing a graph and understanding all the different properties of it. Um, and so it really gives them that visual guide to go through where they're playing around, moving points around where it's changing what the graph is doing. Um, and they're really able to interact with those different pieces to see how each piece kind of changes uh the other parts. Um, we'll use Khan Academy in there too, where students would go through and uh maybe we're in a harder, more like algebraic concept. And so for those of you non-math folks, obviously we know Khan has almost everything now. And so we'll have them go through and um and work on one of the practice lessons in there where they'll work on those practice questions, have to turn in their work for them, and they have to get a uh 75% accuracy out of four questions. And they have to show their process with those types of questions, they're having to struggle a little bit and they'll get things wrong. And that's the whole part of it is you work through it until you get three of them right and you show all of your little annotations, like, oh, it looks like I messed up here. So then I went through and redid this, and okay, now I've got it right. Um, it's the same kind of thing with when we're using these interactive applets. Um, and so what's great about these labs is the students will first go through and they do what I call their draft lab. So they don't see what anyone else has done in the class, but it's very low stakes. They go through, they interact with the content, and then they'll have all of their you know written work and a lot of the questions in there will, you know, really check for understanding. But then there's always reflection questions, like what worked best? Where did you struggle the most? How did this help you learn the content? What questions do you still have? Then what they'll do is they'll post those labs. So those are, for example, their drafts are due Fridays. Then they have two days that they're able to see once they posted what their peers have posted. And so then they interact with each other over it. Like, oh, I saw you got this here. I actually got a different answer here. Let's talk it through and see what's going on. And so we had to be really intentional with that peer feedback instead of just saying, give feedback to two peers. In an online class, then you're gonna have just like a couple people that have like 10 responses and a lot of people that get nothing. And so we've made it intentional where they have to be one of the first two responders on a post. Um, so that ensures that every student will have two responses.

Derek Bruff 11:19

Such a simple strategy, right? So I'm a student, I need to be first responder. I have to find some of my one of my peers who doesn't have a response yet, right? Exactly. But it makes sure that everything's distributed more evenly.

Jessica Bernards 11:33

100%. And then what's cool is so then there's a rubric that we have for the feedback so that it's not just provide feedback. It's like it has to be seven at least seven sentences, and here's all the different criteria. Like, what do you see that was working well? Where do you have questions on any of the content? Do you see anything different from what you got? Um, has any of their lab helped you with redoing your lab? And so um, so it gives them this guide where it has to be quality feedback and what that expectation is for what quality feedback looks like. And then what students will do is on Sunday, they go through and look at the peer feedback that they got and they revise their lab based off of that, plus looking at their other peers' work. And so then by Sunday night, they turn in their finalized lab, and that's what I grade. But part of that is a reflection piece on how did you um how did you incorporate your peer feedback into your lab? How did this help you learn the content more? What are you still struggling with? And what are some things that you can do to ensure that you can fill those holes? Um and so they're really thinking about all of those different pieces. We also try to bring in a lot of things with growth mindset. So every once in a while, throw growth mindset questions in there too, like what did you struggle the most with on this lab? Um, how did you persevere through it? Um, what are you still struggling with? And what are some things that you can do to ensure that you're learning it? Um, so again, just really reminding them of all of those things because especially in math, um, but I think in all courses, you want students to understand that struggling is part of the process. Um, and so much now in our society, we're so used to these um, like getting that instant gratification and not seeing the struggle. And so students want to just get the answer and move on instead of recognizing that if you do that, you're not really getting your your brain in that growing period where you're going, like, you know, if we think about the um zone of proximal development, we want to get them in that learning zone, which is part of struggling. And so really helping them see that by persevering through that struggle is where they're gonna fully understand. So, yeah.

Derek Bruff 13:49

Yeah. So um, I'm thinking of a comment I had on one of the first episodes of my podcast a few years ago, Mary-Ann Winklemes was on. She heads up the Transparency in Learning and Teaching project. And she made a comment about how uh even students who've done well in high school, they come to college with a set of study strategies and learning strategies that are maybe a little generic and not uh often not sufficient for the learning we want them to do in our courses. That they need to have they need to learn how to learn in a math course as opposed to a generic course. And so, do you see, do you see that shift as you're working with students in the year class?

Jessica Bernards 14:29

I love that you asked me that. So I actually created a free OER um mastery skill series. So if you just Google my name and YouTube, it'll take you on my YouTube channel. It's not monetized, so I don't get any money from you watching the videos, but it is um a study skill series and it's specific to math and based all on research. Um, all of the videos are under seven minutes, most of them are five minutes. Um and they're just quick little like, how do we study for a math test? How do we do math homework the right way? Because there's a way to not and and that's where I try to really bring in a lot with brain-based learning and like not just telling them like don't have AI open or photo math or the you know, back in the day in our day would be like the solutions manual, which I don't even know if those exist anymore. But um, but why that hurts your brain, where even if you see the steps and you understand it once you see the steps, that's not actually you fully learning the content and being able to do it yourself. And so just really helping them understand and learn that part. Um, but again, studying for a math test is very different than studying for other um subject areas. Doing math homework is very different. Um, time management, we talk about that a lot um with time blocking and um what you should be expecting for that, for like the amount of time you should be spending on a math class, which that's always shocking to them, I think.

Derek Bruff 15:52

Yeah. How do you try to help your online students stay motivated and keep moving through this process? Because it is a lot of work. And especially if they're a little underprepared, that's kind of even more work that they have to tackle. Yeah. So I didn't happen to that motivation piece.

Jessica Bernards 16:08

That's such a great question. So and my classes are fully asynchronous, right? So I'm not meeting the only times that I see them are the three times that we do proctored exams that they're required to see, sorry, I should say the only times that they're required to see me. So my goal is to try to see them as and and have these touch points as often as possible. And so um, every week I send on Monday, I send every student an individual email based on their work from the previous week. And so, and I actually the first week, I actually do that also on Wednesday. So, because they have their first set of assignments due Tuesday of the first week. So that way they're getting some feedback right away. And so my feedback goes to not just struggling students or things that are maybe red flags for me about them, but also the students that are doing well and I'm seeing are putting the time in because getting that positive reinforcement really motivates them to continue to do those same habits. And so I have a like a word file I've put together with like a template of emails to send. So if I have a student that I saw took the time to make sure that they fully watched the lecture videos, went through the questions where I can tell they're working on them themselves. Um, because luckily with both my lab and Pearson and my open mask, um, you can see how much time they spent on each question in each assignment. And so that way I can pinpoint and say, hey, I noticed you went through, you didn't wait to do all of the assignments until the day they were due. You spread them out throughout the week. You um, I saw the time you spent on them is exactly what I'm wanting to see. Um, you know, please know I'm here if you have any questions, keep up the good work. You've got this. Um, for my students, then I'm seeing that they completed everything, but maybe completed everything with 100% accuracy in like five minutes. Well, that tells me they're using AI to do that, right? Or an outside resource. And so then they get a different email from me that just says, Hey, I noticed you finished all the assignments, which is great. However, I notice this is how much time you spent on it. And here's what this leads me to believe. Here's how this is gonna hurt you in the long run in this course, because 80% of your course grade comes from proctored exams. I've had to literally change my course grade to that, which goes against all I believe in with grading. But at this point right now, that's the I have to do that to ensure that our online classes are having students come out with the knowledge that they need in the grade that they should be getting based off of that knowledge. And so um, so it's just reaching out to them and giving them some strategies on like, here's how you can spread out your work throughout the week. This is what I'm wanting to see time-wise. Um, let me know if you have any questions. I will be going back and checking on Monday to ensure that you've gone back and redone these assignments with the expectation of how to do them. Um, and then the students that didn't get things done on time, they get a different email that just says, Hey, I know getting used to an online class at first is hard. And um, but please know I'm here to support you and help you. You do need to make sure you're spending some time throughout this. If you're having an issue with time management, send me an email and we can meet up and kind of talk that through. And then I do the same thing again every Monday of every week. Um, just that they're they're noting, they're knowing that they're not just like a random number on my roster, but they're someone I truly care about. I also start the term off with a 10-minute required one-on-one Zoom meeting with me. So the students have to um, I have I'll create a Zoom calendar of appointments, which is really easy to do now. Um, and they have to sign up um for a 10-minute slot within the first two weeks of the term. And so for a teacher, it's a lot because I'll try to do morning sessions, evening sessions, afternoon sessions. I do a week one day on the weekend, which my husband wants to kill me when I do that. But I want to be there when my, you know, try to be as inclusive as I can. And it's just the, you know, one time. And so they have those appointment slots, they'll meet with me one-on-one, and that's where we just get to know each other. So it's really low stakes. They see that I always start out by saying, like, I want you to know you've got a cheerleader in your as your teacher. I'm here to cheer you on, I'm here to support you. I want to see you succeed in this course. Part of that is gonna be you taking that responsibility of doing the assignments and also reaching out for help when you have it, because you are gonna struggle, and that's part of learning. And that's okay. Mistakes are gonna happen. That's what helps you grow. And so your job is to put the time in to learn the content and reach out to me the second you have a question. And um, that really helps also kind of break that ice where they feel a lot more comfortable reaching out to you when they need help because they see that you're not just this random name that shows up on you know their screen, but like they know who you are, they've seen you talk. Um and they know that you care about them. And so, and it's it's really low stakes for them to come to that original meeting. So it's just like tell me about yourself, you know, and do you any questions about the course setup or how exams are gonna work and things like that? So it makes a really big difference.

Derek Bruff 21:08

Yeah.

Jessica Bernards 21:09

And then obviously we have written feedback. So every week they do quizzes and they have to turn in their written work for that. So they get feedback on that. And then we with the labs, they're getting written feedback from me as well.

Derek Bruff 21:19

Okay. So, in terms of the assignments, it's these quizzes, the labs, the reflections on the labs, the peer review, right? As you said, at this point, most of the grade comes from those proctored exams, but you've still got all these learning structures built for them to get ready for that.

Jessica Bernards 21:37

Yeah, I try to have multiple dates too that things are due throughout the week because if we wait until, you know, just have one day, like human nature is a lot to have the times to put it off. And so what I've done is I set up my courses where I house my videos in whatever uh online homework platform I'm using. And so that way it's an assignment for them. I call those the learning assignments. And so there'll be my lecture videos that I've chunked into eight minutes or less. So they're just by objective. So for one section, it might be six videos, but um, they'll watch the video. I have guided learning notes that they fill out as or guided video notes as they're watching the video. So they're partial definitions, I'll have the uh example directions written there, but none of the work. And so what they're doing is they're filling that out as they're watching me filling it out on the video, and that works for like four different ways. A, it helps them. There's so much research that is has come out and now is even coming out more that more technology has come out that putting pen to paper really helps your brain process that content. It keeps them engaged as they're watching the videos. It's a good way for me to ensure that they are watching the videos and not skipping that part. And then it's a great way for them to use as a study tool.

Derek Bruff 22:55

Do you have them submit their handwritten work?

Jessica Bernards 22:57

I do, yeah. So they submit it before each exam in just like a packet. But so with the learning assignments, it'll be a quick objective level video and then like two low-level questions that follow, just to ensure because there's a lot of research that shows when you first learn something, if you practice it within 20 minutes, it helps you retain it a lot more. Then we move on to the next objective in the section, two low-level questions. So those are Tuesday nights that they have to go through those. And then on Friday, they have what I call the practice assignment, which is technically what would traditionally be homework in an in-person class. And so those are due Friday nights, and then on and then as well as the draft for their initial lab. And then on Sundays is when they have their quizzes due, as well as their final drafts for the labs or final lab. And then we have three exams. Um and we do those, we use Zoom proctoring for those. Okay.

Derek Bruff 23:49

So how that works. Yeah.

Jessica Bernards 23:51

Yeah. So it's been a difficult thing. So in the past, we used to, before COVID, we had them come in person to take their tests. Um, but after COVID, I think we've all realized like it's kind of it can be a hardship for students sometimes to do that. Um, and students are taking online classes for various reasons. Like, not just because, oh, this looks great as an online class, but sometimes they have social anxiety or maybe physical limitations, or maybe they're, you know, in a different country or a different state or whatever. And so what we've changed that to is we now do what's called Zoom proctoring and we use Zoom focus mode. So focus mode comes with all Zoom pop, like uh what is it called? Zoom accounts. But basically what it does is it makes it where I can see everybody as the host, but they can't see anyone else. So yeah, so they come into the room and what I do is I check anything that's in front of them. I don't have them take their phone and like or their video and show everything because I just we were worried about privacy stuff. So we have them um, any pages that are in front of them, they have to show us front and back, so like scratch paper. And then um, and then they have to show their ID to make sure that it's them that are taking the class and not someone taking it for them. Um, and then what they'll do is they'll share their computer screen as well, so we can see everything that's on their screen. Um, and then they'll have a second device, which most of the students use their smartphone for it, that they also log into Zoom. So like they'll have their phone set up on the side of their desk so that way we're also monitoring their hands the entire time they're taking the test.

Derek Bruff 25:31

Okay.

Jessica Bernards 25:31

And so exam integrity is really high. I've had similar grades on those compared to in-person exam scores. Um, because again, you're watching their hands the whole time to ensure they're not, and you're also watching their computer screen. And so um, so they'll go in once I've checked them in and checked all of that stuff. Then I give them the exam password and they can get into the exam, take it. And then once they're done, um, they'll click submit so their answers are locked in, and then they scan and upload their work pages to our learnt LMS system, and then they're free to go. So, yeah, it's worked out really well. And I tried to make the test, obviously, they're very high stakes if they're worth that high of a percentage, but yeah, I got so over, I was having students that were getting 100% on everything. And normally I used to be able to catch, like with math, Photo math has been around for forever, way before, like, you know, these AIs, um, you know, LLMs came out where they're so much more mainstream now. And so with Photo math for our non folks people, uh, math folks, um, they would use the camera on the phone, it scams the problem and gives them all the steps, and it's a free app. It's crazy. But I was able to figure out which questions it did weird um or incorrectly, and then I would always throw those types of questions on or non-proctored things so I could catch if they were using it. It's impossible to catch it now. And like AI has evolved so much. I would have I was able to catch it even six months ago if a student was using AI on our labs. I can't catch it anymore. And so I was having students that were getting 100% on everything and then getting into the test and getting a 9%.

Derek Bruff 27:13

Oh, wow.

Jessica Bernards 27:14

Which PS, the exams are the same questions that have been on the homework and the quizzes. So there's zero reason to not get an A on the exams if you're actually doing right, if you're doing the work yourselves. Like I I no joke, Derek. Uh, sorry, no, sorry for my non-mac math folks in here, but I had an integral calculus student who had gotten 100% on everything, comes to take their test. They ask in the Zoom chat, um, what does it mean when it says evaluate an integral? Oh I'm like, that's this entire class.

Derek Bruff 27:49

What the like you should have done that a hundred times this week, right?

Jessica Bernards 27:53

Oh my God. And of course that student got like a nine percent. So yeah, that's where I had to finally just up it. And so what I tried to do so they're a little bit less low stakes is I have where if you get a final, if your final exam score is higher than your lower two math exam or lower two exam scores, so whatever the lowest is of your two exams, I will replace that lowest exam score with what you get on the final. Final is always hardest, right? Because it covers everything. And so by doing three exams, I have that capability to do that. And so what'll you typically happen that first exam, a bunch of them will terribly fail. A bunch of them will get high A's because they're doing the work, but a bunch of them will terribly fail because they've cheated. And so that's a great opportunity to do a check-in with them and say, hey, let's talk about what happened here. You can still come back and get a good grade in this class, but there's going to be some major changes that need to happen. So let's meet one-on-one and go over your study strategies and let's look at how you're doing these assignments because something's going on that it's not connecting. And that's typically when when we do meet, it'll come out, you know, sorry, yes, I've been using this on this. And when I get stuck and I thought, you know, since I understood it, once I saw the steps that I was fine. And so the study skills videos I was talking about earlier, I actually talk about that in there where I say, like, you can watch a soccer game, know all the different plays, positions, everything. But that doesn't mean you could go out and play pro soccer. And so watching it is not the same as being able to do it. Um, and that's the same thing with math and any subject area. You need to be able to do it on your own. So, yeah. So it's it's most of the time I can get them to recognize that and start really digging in and get the work done.

Derek Bruff 29:42

Like if you're talking to a colleague who's a little bit skeptical, maybe they haven't taught an online math course before. Uh what do you appreciate about this modality that is uh uh different, you know, things you can do differently in the online space that maybe are harder to do in the on the on-site space?

Jessica Bernards 30:00

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is access. So online courses really allow students to continue their education while they're working, parenting, dealing with relationships or sorry, not relationships, transportation issues, health needs, um, you know, living far from campus. Um, and so for a lot of like community college students, online learning is not just a convenience, it's something that makes college possible. At U of O, they actually had me come in. So I am like one of the lead for the online classes at the community college I'm at. Um, I'm there full time. But then U of O approached me and said, like, hey, we need to start thinking about bringing some online courses in because they moved to Big Ten, which meant the fat the athletes were going to be traveling so much more. And so, how do we ensure? I mean, you know, the research, if you miss a couple of math classes, you're pretty at a very big disadvantage than the students that are there. And so how can we ensure that they're getting the same level of access and not by them missing some classes, not all of a sudden at this big, you know, detriment to being able to pass the class compared to the students that were able to make all the in-person classes? So I I think that's the biggest thing is we can't get rid of them because it really matters for access for students in both community college and four-year schools. Um, I think you just have to intentionally develop the course so that A, you ensure that there's meaningful um interactions, not just with the students and the content, but with the students and the teacher and with the students, student to student. And and all of those little meaningful checkpoints for students where you're giving them feedback as well. Um, they're working together on things so that they see they're not the only one struggling. I I wish I could share with you without breaking FERPA my discussion boards and seeing how students are talking to each other, where they are like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for your help last week. I was able to get through this because of the feedback you gave me. Hey, I have some feedback on your lab. I'm noticing you did it this way. Um, have you thought about this instead? And it's just so powerful where they realize I'm not the only one struggling, or hey, this person helped me here. I can help them here. So they can all see that they can be an asset to each other at some point. Um and I think, you know, just really giving those students those meaningful feedback, meaningful check-ins, and um, meaningful interactions is huge. Um, but then also at this point, I think we just have to ensure that we have integrity for the grades. And to be frank with you, in in-person classes, you can't assume that either, especially if you're not doing like a flipped classroom or whatnot, because if your students are doing your homework outside of class, you don't know if they're using AI. And I guarantee you most of them probably are. And so, you know, how do you ensure that your that class isn't has integrity as well? And and luckily for in-person, they can do those exams so much easier. Um, proctored. But for online, there's more that goes to it. Um, but I'll tell you, Zoom focus mode has been incredible because I feel like I love using it more than like a proctor you or something like that, because I'm there interacting with my own students. I have the whole class come in. There's 25 to 30 kids, um, or students, I should say. And um, sorry, I used to be a high school teacher if you couldn't tell. And um, and I, you know, will joke. We do some court, you know, announcements at first. We were joking about jorts the other day before their test. Cause I try to like loosen it up before they take it so they're not as anxious. But my hype, my 13 old come in with jort, like jorts on right before it started. And I was like, wait, are jorts a thing again? Like, I can't, I can't. I just remember them from the 90s. And so then everyone in my class started laughing and talking about it. And so it's just building that community. Um, so it's really great.

Derek Bruff 34:01

Yeah.

Jessica Bernards 34:02

And it's fun too, because you can see as they're doing it their tests, you know, like, yes, great job, you know. Or like if you start to see them struggle or get stressed out, you can just send them a quick little chat being like, You got this, take a deep breath. Like, I believe in you, move on to the next problem if you need to, and come back and have those interactions where they know that you care.

Derek Bruff 34:20

I want to talk a little bit more about AI. Um, and you've talked about kind of the challenge that AI poses. Um, what are some other ways that generative AI has, or let me phrase it this way. What are some other ways that you've responded or changed your approach to these courses because of AI? Kind of for good or for bad?

Jessica Bernards 34:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's funny. So, I actually with my AI consulting company, this is what I do is I I go and work with schools and educators. I I have like a one-hour workshop that I'll do um, or up to a four-hour workshop that we do. And so when I talk about these things, it's about intentionally bringing it in, but also being intentional about what it can't be used for and thoughtful about that process. And so I am very clear, and this is it's so important to be clear in your syllabus, about the expectations are evolving with AI. And the biggest missed thing that suit that teachers miss is that Grammarly now is AI. So we used to, you know, a lot of writing teachers and stuff used to always say, Oh, yeah, I use Grammarly, it's great. But now, even like the free version of Grammarly, when you click on something, it doesn't just like help you if you've got a grammar issue or a spelling issue. Now it's like rewriting your stuff and it'll actually write it from scratch. And so I've had to be intentional in my syllabus statement that says on any graded assignments, um, you cannot use AI, any websites or apps that'll give you the answers, um, uh Grammarly, Google, because again, like they're like, well, I've been able to Google it. And but now Google, when you Google it, it's AI instead of giving you like a similar thing.

Derek Bruff 35:56

Right. It'll it'll it'll try to predict what questions you're asking, and it'll give you more information than you asked for. And now you've robbed yourself of that opportunity to figure out. Exactly.

Jessica Bernards 36:05

So I'm very explicit in that statement.

Derek Bruff 36:08

Yeah.

Jessica Bernards 36:08

So I I also say good ways to use AI are AI is a powerful tool, and it can really enhance your learning. So you can't use it for these things. However, you can use it in these ways. And I actually give them like prompts, like ideas for prompts that they can use. So our school has the students get access to Google Gemini. And so I'll say, go into Google Gemini, go to the guided learning part of it. So, what it does is it creates it basically is like having your own tutor chat bot with you in at home. And so I talk about like if you're struggling on a concept, really great things that you can do is you can say, I'm struggling on whatever the topic is. And if you don't know what the name of the topic is, because a lot of the times they don't, look at the name of the section. And then you can say, explain this to me like I'm in fifth grade. Um, that's my favorite one to say explain it like I'm in fifth grade. Um, and it really breaks things down. And, or I'll say, uh, I'll give a prompt of like, give me three practice problems that are similar to this one to help me understand how to do them. And so that way it's not the same question that's graded, but now we're gonna have them do similar questions to be able to understand the process through it and then be able to translate it to the one that's graded. Um so little things like that help me help create a study plan for me, um, help create practice problems for me to get ready for this exam. Um, and when you're in those study modes, it's really powerful because it doesn't just give them answers, it makes it forces them to have to be engaged. So, like if you say, I'm struggling on the chain rule, explain this to me. Like I'm in fifth grade, it'll do like a little explanation and then it'll say, Okay, so let's start. What do you know about this? And then you answer it. Okay, so the chain rule deals with we have to first identify the inside function and the outside function. Here's an example. Okay, now let's look at a new function. Which one is the inner? Which one is the outer? And they have to answer it before it'll move on. And so it really is step-by-step scaffolding them best teaching practices through it. And what I love about Gemini at least is that it uses growth mindset language within it, which is really great. Um, and so so that's so the other thing that I've done is um I have on like a few of my labs. So I I have created, I've made it where they created an AI chat bot themselves that walks them through it. And so if you go on the website Every Learner Everywhere, which is I think that was the pot, that was what you and I were on together, correct? Yeah. So if you go on the website Every Learner Everywhere, you can see A, the discussion boards that I was talking about earlier and how those are set up and graded. B, you can see this assignment that I use for students to create their own AI tutor chatbot. Um, and you can use it for any of your classes. And so it has them go in, um, gives them the prompt to put into the AI of like, uh, I want you to act as my tutor. Um, please help me understand blank subject or topic like I'm in fifth grade. Um, first explain it to me, and then have me with an example and a visual if possible, and then have me explain it back in my own words. Give me feedback on my explanation and let me know if I'm missing anything or not. So now we're bringing that metacognition piece in to ensure that I fully understand. Once I'm get to that point, create five practice questions of various difficulty, give them to me one at a time and have me answer them. If I get it wrong, help me understand what I did wrong and then give me a similar question before I move on to the next practice question. And it's so incredible how the it shows the students how to use it to really enhance their learning because it is such an amazing powerful tool if it's used in that way. And then what they turn in is their chat log with the AI and then their work pages when they're working on the practice questions.

Derek Bruff 40:06

Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I think part of it is because your off-the-shelf Chat GPT or Gemini won't behave in those useful ways, they will overhelp, but these tools can be given sufficient directions to make them act like a like a legit tutor. And they can generate practice questions right instantly, right? They could kind of do things that tutors might actually struggle with at a kind of volume and scale.

Jessica Bernards 40:32

Yeah, I think it's really it's their favorite, one of their favorite labs that I do. And then my favorite part is like, because again, with every lab, I have reflection questions in them, is having students say, Oh my gosh, I am so excited. I'm studying, I'm struggling in my microbiology class, and now I know I'm gonna just take out the math content prompt and change that to what I'm studying, struggling with in microbio. And it's so helpful.

Derek Bruff 40:57

That's great. That's great. Oh, so much good stuff. Thank you, Jessica.

Jessica Bernards 41:01

Yeah, thanks, Derek.

Derek Bruff 41:02

Thanks so much for being on the show and for sharing and to giving us this insight into all the many moving pieces of your courses and how you use those to support student learning.

Jessica Bernards 41:11

Thank you. Appreciate you.

Derek Bruff 41:13

That was Jessica Bernards, math instructor at Portland Community College and the University of Oregon. Thanks to Jessica for coming on the show to talk about all the many things she does to support her online math students. I hope this interview has provided a vision of what an effective online math course looks like here in the age of AI. There are a lot of moving pieces in Jessica's courses, but they're all planned with great intentionality and with student learning in mind.

Derek Bruff 41:38

You can find out more about Jessica and her work from her website, jessicabernards.com. See the show notes for a link to that website and to some of the materials Jessica mentioned, like her student-designed AI chatbot lab.

Derek Bruff 41:51

Intentional Teaching is sponsored by UPCEA, the online and professional education association. In the show notes, you'll find a link to the UPCEA website where you can find out about their research, networking opportunities, and professional development offerings.

Derek Bruff 42:06

This episode of Intentional Teaching was produced and edited by me, Derek Bruff. See the show notes for links to my website and socials, and to the Intentional Teaching newsletter, which goes out most weeks on Thursday or Friday. If you found this or any episode of Intentional Teaching useful, would you consider sharing it with a colleague? That would mean a lot. As always, thanks for listening.